I’m warning you, some of you will not like what I am about to say. I’m bracing myself for potential backlash, but I just can’t bite my tongue on this anymore. I wrote the following on my personal Facebook page yesterday because I was so annoyed with hearing just how horrible some people are with their personal choices in life:
Today Show anchor Jenna Wolfe and her partner had a baby girl the other day. The rude, close-minded comments on the FB picture are insane. Here’s a bombshell: gay marriage and same sex parenting is no big deal to teenagers anymore. In the small town conservative district where I teach, no students bully those who have same sex parents. It’s NO BIG DEAL. Would our older generation please stop making it a big deal? You can unfriend me now if you don’t agree…
Let me just lay it out there–I see it EVERYDAY. I see how the world is changing. The reason I see this is because I work with 100 teenagers over the course of seven hours. I interact with many more as my little high school has approximately 400 students and my classroom is located near the main stairwell and I am the queen of high fiving those kids in the hall. I high five any and every kid that walks by my room. I overhear conversations in my classroom, near the lockers, in the hallway, in the bathroom. I am like the janitor in The Breakfast Club when he says, “I am the eyes and ears of this institution.” And let me tell you, America, or the five of you who are actually reading this: 98% of these kids could care less about same sex marriage, same sex parenting, same sex anything. We have kids in our school with gay moms, gay dads, gay brothers, and gay sisters. And we are not a progressive, liberal, big city school. We are a small town, hardworking, blue collar, dairy farming, tractor riding, amazing school. And most kids here don’t care if you’re gay. You want to know why? Because it’s 2013 and it’s (brace yourselves) the new normal. Gasp!
It’s. The. New. Normal.
Now, I know there is the whole, “But the Bible says!” argument and the Jesus crusaders are probably clenching their fists and sighing in sadness for my soul, but just listen. Please.
In addition to observing that high school kids don’t care about same sex anything, I also observe the sadness that it shitty parenting. And there are some really shitty parents out there in every town, in every state. Parents who drink too much, neglect too much, hit too much, smoke too much, yell too much, leave too much. Parents who have checked out and left their kids to raise themselves. Parents who have set a sad example of what a family is, what success is, and what happiness is. But guess what? These parents are straight. Does this make them better? Does this make up for the fact that their child is hungry and dirty and can’t concentrate in school? Does this cancel out the disservice they have done to their child by not showing up to open houses and not making sure that their kid passes so he can be better than what he’s been living with?
If you are going to try to sell me on the fact that lowlife Z is setting a better example than a same sex couple who is actively involved in their child’s life then I’m not buying it. I’m not. I get that the Bible says it’s a sin. But I’m pretty sure if Jesus showed up and decided to get his disciples together to rewrite the Bible, he’d throw a little tidbit about deadbeat parents in there: Thou shall not choose meth, vodka, prescription meds, and shitty beer over their child.
The whole argument is just so disproportionate to what is really important which is how good of a human being are you? Are you compassionate? Are you loving? Are you forgiving? Are you empathetic? Are you genuine? Are you honest? Are you trustworthy?
Are you gay? Who cares.
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This is perfect Shannon. I’m glad we’re friends, and I’m glad you still aren’t afraid to be blunt and honest.
I saw your post yesterday and try not to weigh in on heavy conversations on Facebook, but I will give my thoughts here. I, as a Christian, agree with you. I don’t understand why people feel the need to add an opinion to other peoples choices in life. They had a baby and what does that have to do with me? Point is, we are all sinners. None worse than the others, none lacking the need for a merciful and gracious God, and no one is less worthy of His love NO MATTER WHAT. Here is another side to it all though; why was it newsworthy that a gay couple had a baby? If no one cares, then why do we feel the need to announce homosexuality everywhere? “Here is a wonderful teacher (whispers:and he’s gay!)” Are we going to get to a point when sexuality doesn’t matter? We have come a LONG WAY, but I doubt things will ever completely change in that respect. I think its simply because we are human. We still can’t get over our color issues. I mean, my goodness, our president has been black for the last 6 years and all I keep hearing about is the color of his skin rather than his achievements (simmer down anti Obama fans, he does have some) or the content of his character (remember that speech given 50ish years ago?). My thoughts come down to this, Jesus came to break barriers, preach love, and give hope to the world. Never did He commend unrighteousness, but never did He let it stop Him from bringing the lost closer to Himself. And as Christians that is what we are told to do. NOT to judge and point fingers, but share the gospel and preach of the love, peace, and joy that only Jesus can bring then let God work HIS way in the individual hearts.
Amy, thank you for your honesty! I love honest, open dialogue! So glad we have found ourselves running in the same circles lately 🙂
This comment is so awesome. That is all.
AMEN!
I like this reply… as a Christian and a Teacher Assistant in a small rural town.
Celebrity babies are always covered in the media, no matter if the couple is gay or straight.
I love this reply. Well said.
Boom. Good comment on a good article.
I, as a gay Christian, agree with how you see Jesus’ teachings.
Totally agree!!
very well said.
This is beautifully written and so true. I am not a Christian, I am Jewish and I have to say, finally somebody has come out and said what Jesus Christ really wanted to promote among mankind. “Jesus came to break barriers, preach love, and give hope to the world. Never did HE commend unrighteousness, etc. ”
I have a niece whose husband is a Catholic and has become so fanatic, and so has she, that we have stopped talking to each other only because I voted for Obama and they did not. This is just unheard of.
The prohibitions against homosexuality come from the Torah. No amount of rationalizing or whitewashing is going to change that fact. If same sex unions are permitted to intrude on the definition of marriage, then incest and polyamory are next.
Jesus said “Sin no more” when he healed. You and others like you don’t understand that homosexism is a cult that purposely set out to destroy the underpinnings of society. This was stated in the writings of Erastes and Pill more than 30 years ago. Those who don’t know thanks to persistent propaganda about this think the movement benign which it isn’t. They are already trampling on the religious rights of others guaranteed in the Constitution.
It is known among themselves that monogamy is the exception, not the rule. Violence and STD’s are much higher among them even admitted by them. Lastly, no one has the right to deprive a child of a real mother and father. Being orphaned may happen by accident but there are couples and warm homes ready to receive such children.
I feel sad that it is Christmas Eve and you are spewing such hateful judgement.
Merry Christmas to ALL.
@cabbagejuice I, too, am very saddened by the fact that you are choosing to be so unkind during this Holiday season.
I also find it ironic that you’d reference the Torah in the same statement that you label homosexuals part of a “cult that purposely set out to destroy the underpinnings of society.” I recall another individual that had similar thoughts on certain groups – followers of the Jewish faith, for one – and crafted a plan to remove them from society completely. Perhaps you’ve heard of the leader of the Third Reich?
Then the Bible is full of hate speech, no need to celebrate Christmas. Sorry, you can’t have it both ways. As teachers you have disqualified yourselves if you accept the doublespeak you are imposing on what is set out very clearly in the Scriptures.
If you don’t like it, start a new religion and burn Bibles, or cut out the parts that don’t please you. This will probably happen and not too far into the future.
As for the Nazi’s it was a homosexualist cult steeped in sexual immorality. The book “Pink Swastika” traces its history and the culture of death that similar totalitarian movements set out to destroy the family as God intended.
Fortunately the Third World, Africa and Russia are resisting the intellectual and moral corruption of the West. As largely poor and underprivileged, the people were not brought up to believe their urges feelings, comfort and whims were paramount, not to be contradicted or not immediately indulged in any way.
Thanks, Shannon 🙂 This is fantastic. Times and feelings certainly have changed since we were at Clarence. I live in a bubble out here in San Francisco where it seems like just about no one cares about anything you do as long as it isn’t hurting someone else. It’s nice to see that small-town America’s views are shifting as well. I am sure that views are naturally changing culturally (yay!!), but awesome teachers, like you, that are open and honest, make it so much easier for the needle to move (double yay!!).
EXCELLENT ! EXPLAINED EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS AND SHOULD BE. AMEN!
One question, was your keyboard smoking as you were typing? Unfortunately there are many people who feel homosexuality is an abomination and they are passing this onto their children (perhaps while under the influence of meth AND drinking shitty beer). The world is evolving but it is still full of hate and there is plenty of homophobic bullying going on within the walls of our little school. BUT, with teachers’ willing to openly discuss the issues and listen to BOTH sides, our little GCS will always be moving in a more positive directions … one student at a time.
I’m a Christian and I feel exactly the same way. That whole thing about “judge not” and all. Plus, it seems like it’d be exhausting spending all my energy worrying about things that make not one iota of difference to my daily living. But I tend to have a bit of a “whatever” attitude, so…
The Girl Next Door?? Is that you? I’m so excited that you are reading and commenting! Thank you 🙂
You start of my stating that is and so is “no big deal to teenagers anymore”. So now we can trust the rest of history to what teenagers think?
This is kind of what I was thinking as I was reading this. Although, someone’s sexual orientation is none of my business I guess I am not clear on why it is that I need to know. I don’t tell others about what goes on in my bedroom and as such I don’t really think I need to know what goes on in others. I get this is a lifestyle choice so choose it…..I chose mine without announcing it to the world. Teenagers, through social media, are continually bombarded with these things and only time will tell the effect it will have of them. But until then I don’t think I am going to rely on the opinions of my teenagers. I think as these announcements become the norm more and more “children” will think this is the norm which it is not. I think teachers should be promoting teaching the fundamentals of learning. While I agree that there are many great gay parents this is not the norm and shouldn’t be promoted as such.
I think you misunderstood the message. I don’t walk into my classroom and preach same sex marriage–it’s not really talked about at all among anyone. Which is my point: nobody makes a big deal about it. When these teenagers are older and they have children, this whole same sex marriage/parenting/athletes will not be a point of discussion.
@Cass: I think you are missing, not only the point of the post, but also the genuine struggle that people who identify as gay or lesbian have with how the rest of the world sees us. It may be very easy for you to say (and I paraphrase) that you don’t announce your sexual orientation so why does the gay community need to announce theirs. But when a straight man introduces his wife at a gathering it is all so “natural” according to society. That straight man might not get a raised eyebrow, or a slight pause followed by, “Oh…..ok.” When a straight female teacher announces to her class that she is proud to change her name after her wedding, she doesn’t have to dodge questions about what her husband does or feel paranoid about the questions she’ll get when she eventually takes maternity leave. Those are the reactions I, as a gay woman, get when I introduce my wife. Those are the fears I have about my life and my future. So no – I don’t think it’s necessary for you to have to hear about what I do “behind closed doors” but is that what I’m asking for? I just want to live in a world that doesn’t seem so offended by my life. That is why I love this post by MrsMomBlog. She sees the world changing. I, too, see similar changes – those changes just might be slightly less visible from my vantage point, considering all I have to lose.
And @Chuck Wenzel: Yes, perhaps you should be trusting the future to these teens that you so casually dismiss. They ARE the future. I teach such teens every day and, although I have days that leave me worried and stressed about how they’ll fare once in the real world, we have no choice but to prepare them and trust them. Maybe you could learn from them and their open-minded mentality?
@Mrs MomBlog @thatlesbianteacher I don’t think I missed the point. The point being you see teenagers as more accepting of non-traditional values and I see it being shoved at them through social media day in and day out. They are young, impressionable and have a great need for acceptance. I think you are taking a lot of what you see and hear at face value where I think only time will tell. As they grow and mature and feel more confident in themselves and their opinions you might not see the same from them. I never said that was what you were teaching I only stated that you should teach the fundamentals and not worry about your personal agenda…..teaching is your job. I have lots of differing opinions I would like to bring to my workplace but, like you, in order to keep my job I keep my mouth shut. Enjoy your family as you should but your values are not mine. I am raising teenagers so I also hear a lot and I don’t hear a lot of what this post is all about. Would I talk to them if I thought that they were bullying or being mean to someone with different values ….Oh hell yes! Having an opinion about something and letting it go is one thing, where total acceptance is quite different. I think you are lumping the two into the same conversation. When you state that it is not even talked about and that is how you came to this conclusion…..well that makes no sense to me. This is something they will have a personal opinion on later but right now I don’t think it is on their radar and I find it hard to believe that because it is not on the radar of the kids that you teach that you take this as them being in total acceptance of it. BTW, they are not young teens, they are 17 and 18.
Chuck, I believe her point was that the younger generation does not share the views of their parents and grandparents (SHOCKER!). Thankfully, bigotry dies off a little everyday. Its called evolution.
I’m sorry I have to disagree. I am a Christian too and YES I believe being “gay” is a Sin. Yes you are right one sin is no worse than another but the point is if you are going to bring your children up in the way of the Lord, how can you tell your kids that same sex marriages/relationships is OK? In God’s eyes, it is NOT. I do not judge or condemn those who live this way of life but I cannot condone it either. Would you say “He’s a thief or a murderer or pedophile but that’s his choice”……no you wouldn’t. Be careful….Jesus said “You are either for me or against me.” “If you are lukewarm, I will spew you from my mouth.” Speaking for myself, I will NOT allow the STATE to teach my kids/grandkids that sexual orientation encompasses same sex to same sex relationships. Sorry.
The difference is (and this is not to your religion, just your argument above):
When someone is a thief, murderer, or pedophile, they are harming others. When someone is gay and in love with another gay person, they are harming nobody.
I’m also glad that my STATE isn’t allowed to teach my kids morals based on your God.
It seems the God of a few people who posted above you has a different view on the subject. And I’m sure many people have pointed out that Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, but he did have some other views about judging.
I know you say you don’t judge or condemn, but when you compare homosexuals to pedophiles, that’s what you are doing.
I feel it’s my duty to protect my children from views like yours, not from homosexuality. My child can’t learn homosexuality, he either is or isn’t, but at his age, he believes what adults tell him and I hope he doesn’t have to listen to such hatred in the name of the old testament.
That’s my view as a parent. As a teacher, it hardly ever comes up, although I try very hard to be aware of any bullying. We need to have a safe learning environment, not just from physical violence, but from verbal and emotional bullying as well.
Thank you Marcia. I thought I was the only person on earth who felt that way. We can be kind and truly show love to someone without condoning and enabling. Especially when it affects our children and grandchildren.
…but it doesn’t.
How dare you speak for god.
I am a Christian, too, and you’re really reading the wrong book if you think that the main point of the Bible is condemning people’s choices in partners. Read again what Jesus actually says and you will find that he does not say anything about homosexuality anywhere, nor was he big on condemning people if you aren’t god.
Stop using a religion of love as a mantle to cover your small-minded idiocy.
Seriously? God wasn’t big on condemning people? He condemns SIN and he instructed us to talk/teach others that what they are doing is Sin and to Repent. How much clearer can he be? And I NEVER said the main point of the bible is condemning people’s choices in partners. You certainly added your own little slant to that statement. My whole point in even commenting on this blog was about Common Core and that I do not believe the school/state has the right to teach my children/grandchildren that same sex relationships are the NEW NORM. It most certainly is not the new norm in Christianity and it won’t be taught that way in my home.
I agree Marcia. The Bible calls homosexuality an abomination. Love the sinner, hate the sin. 🙂
Where? And how is this a central issue to the bible?
Genesis 19 and 1 Corinthians 6:9. As for it being a central issue, I don’t really see it as one.
Have you read the verses before and after that as well? How are they the same thing as today’s homosexualtiy?
Also, why do you cherry-pick these rules, or do you stick to the entirety of Leviticus?
I’ll be honest, I don’t know a whole lot yet. I’m still learning. I know the Old Testament was kind of “done away with” when Christ died but I still believe it has valid information in it. Thank you for challenging me though. 🙂 I’ll go study my bible some more.
The same book of laws that briefly touches on homosexuality also says its an abomination to eat catfish, pork, rabbits, etc. It also says that a man who has a blemish (including being lame, blind flat nosed, etc.) can’t come to God’s altar because their blemishes would profane his holy place. Children, who curse their parents, are to be put to death. These are just a few of the laws of Leviticus, but no one brings up anything except homosexuality, which Christ never actually spoke against. He did, however, speak on many other subjects including remarriage after divorce, which he said is adultery, which per the Bible, is a sin punishable by death. So before, you start quoting scripture, you might want to actually read some of the rest of the laws and rules that people apparently ignore. It even says mixing plant fibers and animal fibers in the same garments is breaking God’s law. Narrow minded, bigoted people use the Bible to push an agenda about gays while ignoring everything else written in the same parts of the Bible. As for saying that I don’t judge, but comparing homosexuality to murder, pedophilia and theft in the next breath, you obviously both judge and convict. Ironically, homosexuality is one of the least discussed “sins” in the Bible, but the one that most “devout” Christians harp on. Why? Most probably so that they can cast that stone and judge, but say I’m just following God’s rules. Frankly, homosexuality is biological in nature, it occurs in most mammal and some bird species, and has no harmful impact on those populations. The bigotry and hatred espoused by many “good” Christians, however, engenders self-hatred, fear, and even suicide among the targeted populace, even when actual physical violence doesn’t occur. Moreover, larger portions of this country are not Christian, and come from backgrounds that don’t necessarily condemn homosexuality, therefore you don’t have the right to force your narrow minded beliefs on my children and grandchildren. None of my kids or grandkids have declared themselves homosexual, but if they do they will be just as accepted by me as any other child, although I will have sorrow for the harder path they must follow because of people with your belief system.
Thank you, Lori. I was thinking the same thing, but you said it much more articulately than I would have. Beautifully stated.
Yes! No need for further comments (see below). And, btw, the Bible, like any other book, was ultimately written by people. People of their time. Which we actually know and which is why, for instance, we don’t stone other today (adulterers or not).
Marcia I am so glad to see someone standing up for this. Same sex marriages can be lumped together with divorces, premarital sex, etc. They are indirectly harmful to children, they have a long term affect. Plus, to the lady who wrote the blog, your right. It is the new accepted norm because our children are being desensitized to what is sin and what isn’t . But the Bible is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow ~ the same thing that applied to those cultures applies to us today accept those that have been changed by Jesus. He changed the stoning and hate to love. But we are still expected to speak out against sin just as HE did.
So very well said Samantha. So nice to see another activist for Jesus Christ. God Bless.
Show me the verse where we are commanded to speak out against sin. When you look and can’t find one, I will show you the twelve places in the Gospel where Jesus says to leave people alone and stop judging them. Go read your Bible.
If what you take away from reading the bible that you need to go on the internet and call the loving relationship between two consenting adults a sin you have read the wrong book.
Focus on what Jesus actually said and less on a code of conduct for priests laid out in the old testament and ritual sexual practices that Paul condemns. If you think the Bible is a book about human sexuality, again, you are reading the wrong book and also should look into why this is s important to you.
God is love, god loves love, and love is never a sin.
@ Marcia: This is the kind of attitude that keeps me closeted to my students. I am out and open about my life and lifestyle to ANYONE who will listen. I love my life and I love my beautiful fiancé, who is a woman might I add. But when it comes to me as a teacher, I am bottled up. I can’t mention the wedding I am planning for November. I can’t talk about my home-life. And I fear that when we have kids, I won’t be able to talk about them either. Many might argue that personal lives shouldn’t be part of the classroom, but I teach History and Culture. Personal experiences, not to mention Tolerance and Legislation, are part of my curriculum. And yet I still cannot be completely honest with my students. Marcia, I do hope you will check out my blog and read my stories. I understand you have a religion that openly condemns (and yes, that’s what it is when you call us sinners) people of the gay community. But what kind of Christian do you want to be? Maybe after reading my journey, you’ll see I’m not so evil.
@MrsMomBlog: It’s beautiful that you have witnessed such acceptance in your school. To some extent, so have I. While the student reaction weighs heavily on me when I consider coming out to them, they are not my biggest fear. My biggest fear is parental backlash and administrative intervention. I have nothing but news stories and others’ personal accounts to back up these fears. But, I am still so worried that the moment I trust the changing times enough to step out and break that dam, I won’t be able to hold back the river.
@Thatlesbianteacher The following might come off as strong, but I have had extremely negative experiences over decades with the so-called gay community. Therefore, I am considerably less than tolerant of their hijacking and transformation of society. So don’t take this personal although I will raise some points that may irritate your views.
You may teach History but you don’t have a right to rewrite it. Practically every comfort, blessing and freedom has come from Judeo-Christian values. Of course, it was not an overnight development, although the concept of women’s rights actually evolved from the Christian view of women. Historically, it goes back to the veneration of Mary and and the concept of Courtly Love in the Middle Ages where women were put on a pedestal and not regarded as merely baby machines.
Historically, law has been a series of compromises for protect the greatest good for the greatest number. Yes, some laws will be unfair to some. Conventional marriages and families are not perfect but opening them up to a redefinition that will not stop at same sex, is simply destroying the basis so far of society that can end in utter chaos.
Who decided that children don’t need masculine and feminine modelling? I find it incredibly selfish that two women would intentionally deprive a child of a father.
As for the excuse given of “love”, unfortunately our language does not dsicriminate between eros and agape. Popular culture has disseminiated the notion that feeling is all you need. Being on a high is not the basis of a relationship as the consecutive burnout encounters of Bold and Beautiful who never get it right.
Personal experience can chime in here as one of my children was manipulated into a relationship going on for years that is mainly serial emotional highs. The partner can’t love in a normal way but only through control.
This may tie into relationships where as it is admitted older persons (but could be the same age or younger) recruit others into the gay lifestyle. This would question the current urban myth of “born that way” for a person who expected to marry a farm boy.
1. Why call it a “so-called gay community”? Are you implying that it isn’t a community? Or that we aren’t gay?
2. Yes I teach History. And I do not attempt to “rewrite” it. How does me fighting for civil rights TODAY mean I am trying to change the past? Answer: It doesn’t.
3. Just because I am a Lesbian, doesn’t mean I am a bra-burning women’s rights activist so save the woman-on-a-pedestal babble. I am a HUMAN rights activist. I strive only to be given the same rights as any other tax-paying citizen. I would also fight for anyone else’s rights that are compromised due to unfair laws.
4. I’m curious to know what you mean when you say “opening [marriage] up to a redefinition that will not stop at same sex.” Are you attempting to slide that ridiculously tired argument in that claims the next step from same-sex couples will be humans marrying animals? Honestly?
5. It’s interesting that you call me and my fiancee selfish for wanting children, and yet you find it completely reasonable to deny marriage rights to us. Seems pretty selfish to me. How again is my marriage and/or lifestyle harming you? As for the comment about depriving my future children of a father – I am well aware of how important a father-figure is to children. The two of us will have to be all we can as parents, and rely on Uncles and Grandfathers to be the constant male role-models our children need. I know that we will be amazing parents that teach tolerance and respect. You do not have the right to tell me, or anyone raising a child outside the traditional nuclear family parameters, that it isn’t enough.
6. I never use love as an excuse for anything. I don’t really care what you want to call it – my life and my love are mine. Please don’t try and downplay my REAL emotions with your child’s bad experience. My relationship with my fiancee is the best relationship in my life. I am close with my whole family, including my 3 sisters. But the two of us share a soul and when we are together, everyone sees it. If you cannot accept that as real love, it is just sad.
7. “Recruiting” people into the gay lifestyle is a rude past-time of irresponsible people that have no respect for themselves nor for the world around them. By grouping every gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender person into the same box, you are being very stereotypical and unfair.
8. Yes, my childhood self had a vision of her perfect future. But when I fell in love, I knew it was real and was brave enough to realize that changing my vision was ok in order to live my life true to my heart. I also believed that CareBears lived in the clouds and friendly trolls hid in the bushes alongside the road. Not surprisingly, I grew out of it. By your logic, I guess I can assume that you have not touched a female all these years for fear of contracting cooties…?
9. Finally, it seems kind of silly of you to nonchalantly quote Lady Gaga while arguing against gay rights. And if you think the “born that way” is just a catchy reference to the argument that sexual preference is genetically predetermined, you are even more out-of-touch with the 21st Century than I thought.
@thatlesbianteacher
4. I’m curious to know what you mean when you say “opening [marriage] up to a redefinition that will not stop at same sex.”
It is already expanding to polyamory. Why stop there and not include incest?
7. “Recruiting” people into the gay lifestyle is a rude past-time of irresponsible people that have no respect for themselves nor for the world around them.
In my life experience, this has been overwhelimingly the case, admitted by homosexuals that they were led into that lifestyle. Some like Tschaikovsky were raped as kids.
.8. “Yes, my childhood self had a vision of her perfect future.”
Frankly I don’t think you did grow out of that idealism and illusions.
“By your logic, I guess I can assume that you have not touched a female all these years for fear of contracting cooties…?”
Certainly not in her private places where incidemtally you can contract cooties.
The gay lifestyle is notoriously promiscuous, also admitted by them, another reason to avoid what do they call it, something to do with “carpet”?
@cabbagejuice that was eye-opening. I should thank you in a way, after all I thought people like you were a long and almost forgotten past. Up front: I am not gay nor lesbian but I have close family members who are, giving me the opportunity to have met all those wonderful, funny, interesting, modest, warm and loving gays and lesbians. Before you ask, I have met many ‘heteros’ where this choice of adjectives could apply as well. Promiscuous lifestyle? Met them and saw them too in my life – they were almost exclusively ‘hetero’. Recruiting? I have always felt more than perfectly comfortable in the company of gay and lesbian men and woman, nobody ever tried to ‘recruit’ – after all most educated people of this millennium know quite well that this isn’t how it works – but I’ve met plenty of hetero men hitting on me in my day (one more reason to feel so comfortable with gays btw.). Where do you get your (hopefully outdated) information? Last time I checked most rapists were hetero too, btw, though I do not know who did this to Tschaikovsky (and I don’t know why it would matter as rape can and will certainly cause trauma but not change your sexual orientation). Same sex relationships are relationships between two consenting adults and are “God sent”, nobodies fault or choice. Polyamory? If I read correctly what thatlesbianteacher wrote, she said she wanted to get married. Does not sound so polyamorous to me. And last but not least, I think arguments should stay above the belt and talk about contracting whatever should have no place here.
@cabbagejuice
that was eye-opening. I should thank you in a way, after all I thought people like you were a long and almost forgotten past. Up front: I am not gay nor lesbian but I have close family members who are, giving me the opportunity to have met all those wonderful, funny, interesting, modest, warm and loving gays and lesbians. Before you ask, I have met many ‘heteros’ where this choice of adjectives could apply as well. Promiscuous lifestyle? Met them and saw them too in my life – they were almost exclusively ‘hetero’. Recruiting? I have always felt more than perfectly comfortable in the company of gay and lesbian men and woman, nobody ever tried to ‘recruit’ – after all most educated people of this millennium know quite well that this isn’t how it works – but I’ve met plenty of hetero men hitting on me in my day (one more reason to feel so comfortable with gays btw.). Where do you get your (hopefully outdated) information? Last time I checked most rapists were hetero too, btw, though I do not know who did this to Tschaikovsky (and I don’t know why it would matter as rape can and will certainly cause trauma but not change your sexual orientation). Same sex relationships are relationships between two consenting adults and are “God sent”, nobodies fault or choice. Polyamory? If I read correctly what thatlesbianteacher wrote, she said she wanted to get married. Does not sound so polyamorous to me. And last but not least, I think arguments should stay above the belt and talk about contracting whatever should have no place here.
@Kirsten You and others may accuse me of being stodgy and old fashioned but the sheer naivety of your and others’ comments would be amusing if they weren’t so tragic. I don’t know who or what god you are talking about here but the real one is unchanging.
“Same sex relationships are relationships between two consenting adults and are “God sent”, nobodies fault or choice. Polyamory?”
Why only two? Is there an objective standard of morality you are referring to? Polyamory is already a fact. You must be behind the times. We already have a whole slew of grandfathers and uncles to supply male bonding. Why not include them in the family?
Hitting on gals by guys (or vice versa) is not recruitment into a lifestyle. There is a whole package of values to be accepted once in the club (which by the way is more a refuge for lonely hearts and for women who want attention).
Someone here mentioned a gay friendly church that also supports “abortion rights”! Sure, this figures, a narcissistic society trying to sanctify its self-indulgence. Godly and Biblical? Of course NOT – only tragic self-delusion.
Also naive in ignoring the abuse of body parts created by God for a specific purpose. Are gays just blissfuly holding hands gazing into one another’s eyes? About hands, why not look up fisting in reference to gay sex?
CAN EVERYBODY PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL ON THIS THREAD? I understand this is a hot topic that elicits strong emotions but I am going to ask that we all agree to disagree. Thank you.
Only being realistic, Shannon. A discussion of meat would do well to include how animals are kept and killed. Not very nice. Humans have the amazing capacity to block out anything unpleasant they want to believe in, the worst these days being abortion.
People in the past also rationalized colonialism, killing off indigenous tribes, slavery and more recently smoking.
Speaking for God rather than let Him speak for Himself, somehow gives some the self-appointed right to disparage His works, to imagine He would create misfits whose outward structure doesn’t conform with their supposed mental orientation, giving them ill fitting body parts for one another, and lastly would consent to mutilating them in transgenderism.
This is total nonsense and insulting. This is a society that has become looney.
But the ground was already prepared by clever people about 40 years ago who PURPOSELY set out to destroy traditional values and ultimately society, paving the way for a religiously neutral, totalitarian one-worldism.
We resemble most these days the Twilight of the Roman Empire. A lopsided welfare system, dilution of core values with foreign cults, weakening of defence, hedonism and last but not least, “gay marriage” practiced by some Emperors.
Except that unlike being a thief or murderer, being gay is not a choice.
Yes it is a choice. It is a choice to continue in that way of life. They can choose to turn away from it. One sin is no bigger than another UNTIL you choose to continue in the sin. Sorry. My belief is they can be “delivered” for lack of a better word through Jesus Christ.
you are not just speaking ignorance, you are also speaking scientifically wrong. I suppose you will say that is because science is set to destroy the young by enabling and supporting blasphemous acts like homo-sexuals, but unfortunately, you are wrong in your “belief” and your thoughts on the subject. A gay can “turn away” from something they are not guilty or ashamed of? Why? Would you “turn away” from your child if they were gay? (Maybe I don’t want to know that answer.) Would you “turn away” from the person you loved because they were black or white (whichever you are not) and your family and friends thought they were “wrong” for you to be in love with? Would that be a sin- the old “race-mixing”? The Bible says a lot of things that have been seriously misinterpreted and revised for modern times. Do you not eat shrimp? Figs? Shop on Sunday? The Bible has some feelings on these matters too. I don’t think JC is looking to “deliver” all the LGBT’s out there- he’s got some other sh*t to worry about in today’s world, and who you love and sleep with is the least of this earth’s problems. You can choose to turn away from generations of bigotry, ignorance, hatred, and judgement, as well. Try that turn.
Okay, choose not to be straight.
If a person is born homosexual, how is that a choice? Did you choose to be female? Did you choose your race? “They can choose to turn away from it.” I would prefer you to be honest…your issue isn’t with homosexuality, it is with sex. Sex that is different than the sex “Christians” have. (Honestly, the type of sex other people have is no ones business but theirs…as long as it is between two consenting adults.) The problem with anti-gay propaganda is they are requesting homosexuals “turn away” from themselves. They are gay. They can’t stop being gay anymore than people can stop being the race they were born. What anti-gay crusaders really want is for homosexuals to stop having sex, because that is the only thing they could choose not to do. Stop making the person the “sin”!
The person is most certainly NOT the sin, the actions are. Stop twisting my words.
I’m so disappointed at the way Marcia is being spoken to for speaking the truth. Unfortunately if someone doesn’t agree with this so called New norm she’s being hateful. So false. In most of the statements I’ve read you are all being hateful, comparing one sin to another. It’s all sin. God said the only way is to turn from sin and your wicked ways by accepting Jesus Christ into our hearts. We are nothing without Jesus my friends, that’s the main point. The only point.
Amen Sister. I see the truth (Jesus Christ) lives in you too. Praise God.
Delivered to what? Vagina? There is no choice. Young innocent children struggling with their own homosexuality since the beginning of time (where it happens naturally in nature throughout all species, those without a need for “God”) absolutely proves that it is not a choice. Who would choose to be the victim of bullying for their entire life? Who would choose having their family abandon them? Who would choose to be judged by a bunch of bible thumpers and risk being tortured and killed by walking down the street every day? Should you really be putting all your faith into a book written 3,500 years ago by a man (not god) ?
I most certainly DO put all my faith in a book written long ago that was inspired and authored by the Lord Jesus Christ and millions of other people in the world do so also. I will pray for the Lord to open your eyes.
You can be as “sorry” as you’d like. But you still sound smug, judgmental and utterly un-Christ-like. And you are wrong. As wrong as you can be. You may not place much emphasis on science in your world, but being gay is NOT a choice. It is as much a part of a person, and as unchangeable, as the color of the eyes or the length and width of the nose. What you would require of gay people would be to give up love, intimate relations and having a family. And THAT is what I find to be sinful.
God IS love and thru him everyone can find love, intimate relationships, family. Not following his word and continuing in actions that God calls Sin, is the real sin. I just choose to spell it out like the Bible does. Being open minded has NO place in Christianity. The Bible was not written in an open minded style. Jesus was pretty straight forward on EVERYTHING he said. If you want to call me small minded, then you also insult the Word for being small minded. I am only quoting the WORD.
Yeah, how dare they continue to be who they were born to be.
If God wanted everyone to be straight, why didn’t he just make everybody straight? Why mess with people? That’s what jerks do.
So Marcia, at what age did you choose to be straight? Was it early in life or later because Jesus wanted you to be straight?
Clearly you have never known a person who was born gay. I’ve known people who were obviously gay from as early as five years old. Are you telling me that a five year old can choose to be gay? And if that’s the case, is he supposed to reach the age of reason and change because Jesus/god says so?
I’m so glad I was lucky enough to be born straight so I don’t have to put up with well-meaning idiots trying to fix me.
Marcia, you’re an idiot. I don’t ever remember choosing to be gay. In fact, in middle school and high school, I wished I wasn’t. I was beaten up once, made fun of on a daily basis, constantly walked to my house from the bus stop crying.
I’m sorry, but it isn’t a choice. You can’t change who you are. You really can’t. Being gay isn’t like being an alcoholic or drug addict. You can’t walk away from this!! It’s people like you that hold back the LGBT Community from being accepted in this world. I think same sex relationships should be discussed in school and everywhere else. It’s time people become more current and accept the fact, that gay people aren’t going away.
And one more thing, how is it that heterosexual couples can get married three or four times, and I can’t get married at all. Obviously, if heterosexual couples have the right to completely screw the whole “marriage” concept, then we should have a chance at screwing it up too. Life is too damn short for all this crap.
Obviously you are very offended by my comment. For that I am sorry. I am not “condemning” you as a person. You may be a wonderful person, I don’t know you. But your choice of lifestyle is a sin in God’s eyes. Yes he still loves you, yes other people still love you but it remains a fact. God does not like it and wants to free you from it. He can and I have seen people prayed for and choose a new lifestyle after Jesus intervened. There’s no way to sugar coat what the Bible says. Sorry. God made you and he loves you and gave his son for you. Don’t you think he can help you with this? He can and all you have to do is ask. “Ask and it shall be given to you, seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened to you.” Matthew 7:7
Sunday, while at my church praying to OUR God – I will pray for you. Perhaps you can spend some time reflecting on Proverbs 10:12-14 (King James Version). To me it means that hostile people are always stirring up problems. Whoever embraces hatred soon finds that this emotion cannot be confined to only the enemies, it will spill over toward friends and break out against those whom you did not mean to hurt. By harboring hatred, you can become consumed with a spirit of hatred and find yourself unable to “hate selectively.”
Hatred? Where in my comment do you see hatred? As Christians we are supposed to love and have compassion for all of God’s children. I never said I hate them. I said it was a SIN and I don’t want the school to teach my grandchildren that same sex relationships are the NORM and OK. They most certainly are NOT OK. The Lord is the one who said being Homosexual is a sin, not ME. I will Pray for YOU. Common Core is PURE EVIL concocted from an evil AGENDA 21 and there is NO goodness in the Curriculum at all. THAT IS THE REAL ISSUE HERE. For some reason, people want to get sidetracked on other less important issues. God Bless and may the Lord open your eyes. 🙂
Please Marcia….read this…before you do more harm than good….
http://www.redletterchristians.org/sexual-orientation-its-not-a-sin/
Marcia, do you really hear what you are saying? “They can choose to turn away from it?” You are essentially asking everyone in the GLBT community to live a lie…to bury a vital part of their truest, most essential self, that desire in most of us to find a mate with whom to share a life. Every serious and reputable medical authority has repeatedly, over years now, discredited the kind of “reparative” therapy you seem to be advocating. Even many in the religious community who once used that word “abomination” with reckless abandon have since taken some time to learn what it really means, and to realize that it also includes a big plate of shrimp and a pulled pork sandwich, neither of which a lot of my own fundamentalist neighbors seem to plan to give up any time soon. I wish for a time when people of faith can find it in their hearts to stop cherry=picking the parts of the Bible that were written for a different people in a different time, and live into the heart of the teachings, to “love God and love one another,” and thus to fulfill the whole law.
I believe that Jesus can deliver them from the desire to be homosexual. I never said they could do it on their own or to hide their true feelings. I said Jesus can heal them. I rebuke the evil that is coming out of this blog in the name of the Lord. It is not ME who has hatred, it is the narrowminded people who are accusing me of it. Being gay was NOT the original intent of this blog but rather Common Core is the issue.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and thus nothing you say can be taken seriously. Why do you use Christianity to teach hatred?
Focus on the actual message.
I wasn’t going to comment. A friend had shared a link to the blog written on the Core curriculum and after I read it I stuck around to wander through the blog. and came across this. After reading Amy’s reply here to Marcia, I feel I have to. Because I am so tired of this attitude that if you don’t agree with the homosexual lifestyle and voice that opinion, you are accused of hatred. SInce when is disagreeing expressing hatred? I saw no hatred in Marcia’s response, either one. I am tired of people playing the victim and feeling it is open season on others, to call names and make baseless accustations against another because the other just happens to say “I think you are wrong and I will not support what you are doing”.
Amy, you voiced your opinion against the CORE curriculum as not being one size fits all and hurting kids, yet you can not seem to see the hypocrisy you show in regard to this issue when you try to force all people to accept homosexuality as ok and say they should be good with it- one size fits all?. THe gay community likes to point that some scientists have done research that points to being gay as not a choice but genetic. Yet that same community seems to forget that being addicted to drugs can be genetic as well, along with predisposition to be an alcoholic, or fat or any number of things that are not necessarily good for you and whoich we would try to help people overcome.
That gay people can be good people, maybe better than straight, I wouldn’t argue. Having one type of sin in your life does not make you evil or mean you cant be a good parent or love people. I know a lot of secular people that seem to have the “love others” idea down a whole lot better than some Christians, I would guess there are gay Christians, then there are also gay people like that COlton guy on survivor who is obnoxious and arrogant. but sin is still sin. THe Bible does not just condemn homosexuality in the chapters dealing with other laws applying to the Jews, but in the New testament as well. I am also tired of this argument along with the one that supposedly says we are not to judge, because Jesus supposedly told us not to. THe Bible is full of passages which tell us, if we see another falling into sin, we go to them and warn them so that they can correct their path. We are not to sit idly by and pretend that they are doing something perfectly ok and let them damn themselves. Judge not lest you be judged is more the attitude we take when approaching that correction, I believe, whether out of hate to condemn, or love to heal. SUrely , you must use this same approach with kids in school. YOu correct to help them do things right and to improve them. and if they fail to take your instruction, and wont change behavior to get the good grades, you have to at some point give them the grade they deserve. As much as you help them, you can not force them to do what they need to do.
those who teach their children that homosexuality is wrong based on the Bible are not teaching hate. They are teaching beleifs in what they understand the God they believe in to have said. I don’t recall ever being taught to hate one who is practicing homosexuality, and I have been in the church a very long time. It is not hate to not want your children forced to accept that the homosexual lifestyle is wrong when it is condemned in the the BIble.
Are you the one determining the CORE curriculum for everyone else’s morality and beliefs of right and wrong? You don’t like it, why are you trying to force it on others?
Thank you Sharron. I felt people were adding in to my comment where there was NO hatred intended. Thank you for your opinion.
Well said Marcia and Sharon. I have not read anything angry or hateful from either of your statements. However, it seems to be ok to be for homosexuality but the minute you are against it (the sin, not the person) then you are labeled as being judgemental and hateful.
What about all the other things in the Bible that are considered to be a sin in Leviticus? are you as up in arms about those and prance around on the internet going on about them? No? Why did you zoom in on that one, then?
Could it be that your personal take on the Bible is influenced by your cultural context rather than actual scripture?
Also, can you really stick your head that deep in the sand that you don’t know what the real-life consequences your chosen interpretation of the Bible has for real people?
The real life consequences are Eternal Life with Jesus and the real life consequences for people who repeatedly sin the same sin over and over with NO repentance is to burn in the lake of fire for eternity. Not much of a choice really.
No hatred, just hey you guys are going to burn in eternal torment according to the way I read this book. And look how much you just LOVE coming back again and again and again to respond. God knows your heart. All I know is your words on this blog. I’m sure Christ would be proud of your pronouncing judgement, he was all about that.
Marcia, you’re obviously continuing in the same sin of judgement. I have read all these comments, thinking I could get by without bantering with such hateful close mindedness but here I am. Just your sheer words affect me negetively, I can feel the bullying and exclusivity with every post. Do you have gay friends? aside from the bedroom (which last time I checked is private anyway), they are the same….HUMAN! With all the atrocities that happen every second on this earth, you should be ashamed that you are excluding millions of beautiful humans from being deserving of love and knowing they are in fact, right! Right to be how they were born, love who they want and NOT live in shame. You are the problem, not them!!
Marcia, I was wondering…since you are an expert on the Bible, could you direct me to a priest? You see I read in Leviticus 28 “‘When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean. 29 On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the tent of meeting. 30 The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the Lord for the uncleanness of her discharge.”
So as I mentioned, I am looking for a priest to present two pigeons to after my period so that I may correctly follow the Bible. It just seems like these priests these days are so out of touch. They don’t even want to talk about my period.
Awesome! Pretty close to my sentiments exactly.
Hi there…..great post, MOM……….First of all: I am gay; have no kids, but wish i did>>>>>>>my partner and I have been together 37 years, and our careers (both in the medical field) and lifestyle did not lend itself to raising a family (but if we could have a “do-over,” we would do it in a heartbeat).
We are now members of “Courage,” a catholic group which promotes celibacy. In a nutshell, it is the person’s (sexual actibg-out behavior) that is sinful. So hate the behavior, not the person!
Hmm…..being attracted sexually to a child, even though you know it’s wrong, but doing it anyway and harming the child– that is bad. Being attracted sexually to a child, knowing it’s wrong, and CHOSING to deny yourself the self indulgent pleasure…does that make you a closet pediphile? Who ensures your “happiness” to express yourself physically and feed the attraction you were either born with, or developed from experiences. Is acting on it a choice? Were you born with those desires? How about any other vice the Bible speaks of? Homosexuals, heterosexuals, murders, bullies, greedy people, gossipers….we ALL desire to have things our way, even when other people aren’t HARMED, doesn’t make it necessarily OK.
What would happen if homosexual relationships became the norm. If the majority of relationships were homosexual. Humanity would become extinct. Is that harmful to others?
People are trying so hard to be politically correct, offend no one ever, feel entitled to be able to do as they damn well please and dare someone to hold them accountable to any standard what-so-ever….. just wait and see how a country whose people are so self-absorbed and feel so entitled remains as an independent, land-of-the-free world leader. Our times of prosperity as a whole is being comprimised by stupid bull shit like forcing people to accept gay as normal and legalizing men marrying each other, and spending money we don’t have–even for a positive goal. We bash our president and leaders for doing a job WE sure as hell aren’t qualified to do, nor would we welcome the public scrutiny of our lives. We’ve become a country of spoiled- rotten, lazy brats who THINK we know what it’s like to suffer descrimination and poor lives. Puh-lease.
I’ve seen my own children accept being gay as no big deal. Accept smoking weed as no big deal. Accept casual sex without being married as no big deal. Accept women who “dance on poles” for a living as no big deal. Hell, they’re being taught to accept it all. Pretty soon there will be no lines to cross. We will be a country filled with people who stand for nothing, can’t agree on anything, because everyone’s moral compass will depend on their own agenda and interests, and we will lose our place in this world. There’s an old saying, “It’s too much like, too much like right”. I’ll bet many start to cry out for Jesus when THAT day comes….cause no one else will give a rats ass about you then.
I recognize I am late to the commentary…just stumbled upn it…but I struck by Marcia’s string of comments and felt compelled to write: Marcia, I higly recommend that you read the book Torn, by Justin Lee. I do beleive that it will change your understanding and perpective on sexual oreitation as it relates to Christianity. I too am a Christian, actively involved in ministry and service…and I have ABSOULUTELY no issue with homosexuality…with same sex marriage and with two people commited to one another, lovingly raising children together…having worked for 4 years in Child Protective Services…I have seen first hand the consequences of ‘shitty’ parenting and I am firm in my belief in Jesus and my personal theology that our triune Lord is more concerned with how we love one another…and less concerned with how we judge…you see when we love…we sin less…when we embrace we judge less…when we show and model God’s grace…there from the beginning in the ‘Garden of Eden’ when God provided clothing for Adam and Eve…we are not so worried about what others do in their bedrooms…and are much more concerned how everyone expresses God’s love to us and others…I am not at all worried about how my children will experience the love shown to one another by a same sex couple…I am very worried about how they experience watching the blessed ignore the the unblessed of this broken earth (Luke 16:19 – 31)….I encourge you to prayfully consider what you worry about most. Blessings and Grace to you.
The guy was probably a hater anyways =p Who else writes a book of rules?!?!
Thank you for writing this post. It’s extremely reassuring to know that nice, open-minded people still exist in this world.
When did you choose to be straight Marcia? Is there some defining moment where you knew you had a choice and then chose to be straight? Chances are no, you didn’t. What you probably thought to yourself was “I just was” or ” I don’t know”. If you didn’t choose, then how did they? And not to beat a dead horse but who would ever choose to be bullied, and bigoted against if they could help it? In fact to be “delivered” wouldn’t they really be denying the way they were born/their nature and having to deal with all that entails? Just two cents from a stranger. Have a great day! God Bless
First let me say, I enjoyed reading your piece on the Common Core. However, I don’t agree with the piece that I currently commenting on. I am a Christian, and I would like people to know that everything in this world after the fall of man is a sin. Everything! We all have sinned, we all sin daily in deed or in thought. For me to say I don’t like the way a gay person behaves or I don’t like gay people is a sin. But I can say I do not like the sin that is homosexuality.To say something is wrong or is a sin is not judging. To cast judgment is to say something directly about someones character whether you know their situation or not. The sin is separate from the person. That is why we are able to love people but not like what they do. Even when our family or our children do something we don’t like or is considered a sin, do we stop loving them? No, not at all! I will not stand by and let others tell my children that being gay is the NEW normal. And for someone to tell me that if I teach my child that homosexuality is wrong would mean I am teaching them to hate is completely false. I am teaching them that no sin is worse than the other. It is not only our outward deeds that matter but the way we think about and treat each other.
I am a new reader, and I am well aware that these are your thoughts and your opinions. Thank you for sharing and allowing us as readers to share. God bless!
Like and totally agree with your statement.
The pretzel logic that you have to employ to justify your position pretty much sums it all up for me. “It’s not judging to say something is wrong” Yeah, no, that’s pretty much the definition of judging. Homosexuality is a sin in exactly the same way that planting a field with two types of crops is a sin, according to the Bible. You guys NEVER respond to that. Ever. Braiding hair. Eating shrimp. Wearing leather and cotton. So, why are you so fixated on this one sin? Is it because you do the other things? So, they can’t be sins anymore, they didn’t really mean THAT part of Leviticus. But, you don’t sleep with the same sex, so THAT one is a BIG sin in God’s eyes. Your utter hypocrisy is nauseating.
Sara, in all the posts or conversations I have ever had about Leviticus and its lists of sins, I have never gotten a decent reply. You can’t make people see your perspective when they live to be right. Religion corrupts the weak minded by binding it to rules that break the code of humanity….period! If someone’s innate sense of right and wrong are lacking, religion is nothing but a tool used to hurt others.
This is so spot on. I love it. Well said!
I wonder if all these folks who claim that homosexuality is a sin know what part of the Bible it comes from.
The only place it is mentioned is in Leviticus. If they believe the part about homosexuality, why do they ignore the rest? The book of Leviticus calls many things a sin, including eating shrimp, pork, or goat meat. Do I rant and rave that the community is sinful for leading people to believe that it is perfectly okay to eat shrimp? Do I cry “ABOMINATION” any time Red Lobster advertises endless shrimp? It also says it is wrong to wear fabrics woven from more than one type of fabric. Do I get mad at society for encouraging people to wear cotton spandex blends? What about the part that forbids working on Sundays? Should I condemn workplaces that are open on Sunday for encouraging people to sin?
In reply to another comment, the baby was mentioned because one of its mother’s is a public figure. The media makes a big deal out of straight famous people’s kids, too. (Kardashian/West child, the Jolie-Pitt kids, etc…)
Can’t say it any better than Marcia. Ditto on everything she said.
Just because you are calling it the “new norm” does NOT make it right. Lots of things are becoming the “new norm” and are morally wrong. Sorry, but I can’t just sit back and say nothing about this.
Thank you Kim. When it comes to my kids and my Lord, I have to speak up. Glad to meet a fellow believer.
Why have you not responded to any of the questions about the rest of Leviticus? Do you eat shrimp? Wear fabric blends? Know any divorced/remarried people in your church? Do you follow ALL of Leviticus to the letter? Please respond?
Why so many people feel the need (and entitlement) of being in the personal business of so many other people is the part that appalls me. I, personally, feel no attraction to nor desire to be homosexual, but I also don’t give one single bleep if other people are/do.
Perhaps if the vast majority of people focused more on their own lives and situations, we wouldn’t have as many world problems as we have.
I often wonder if we live in a world where everything is *too easy*, since everyone has so much time to be meddling and judging and harassing and crusading. My personal opinion on someone else’s sleeping arrangements is irrelevant because – again – it’s not my business.
One thing that I can add – from personal experience – is that kids don’t give a crap who raises them, so long as they feel secure and loved. Maybe that’s why so many busybodies wind up with pregnant teenagers. If you are actively involved in other people’s families then by default you are neglecting involvement in your own because there are only so many hours in a day.
I’m not a Christian, either, for the record. But I have many friends who are. Religion (or lack thereof), much like sleeping arrangements, is a personal choice and not something that should be foisted onto other people. My idea of what is right and wrong will NEVER mesh up completely with someone else’s. Where people fail is when they decide that they are the only ones who are right and then attempt to force their own beliefs onto others.
Homosexuality? No harm, no foul.
Telling people they are an abomination, horrific, “sinful”, or wrong over something that has nothing at all to do with anything of importance? Inexcusable. How about we criticize punishing GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG-grandchildren over the transgression of one ignorant woman who had no concept at all of right and wrong. (Genesis 3:22-24 The the Lord said ” Behold the man has become like one of us. Knowing good and evil…” obviously, prior to this, they had no concept of the idea that they were misbehaving. Would you punish your grandchild for your daughter breaking a cup at age 2?)
There’s my 2 cents. Shred me as you will.
Man this train certainly has derailed. My only point in commenting on homosexuals is this…..sexual orientation should be taught at home by the parents and/or family. NOT by Common Core standards that say it will include sexual attraction to a member of the same sex. THAT is my point. Not to judge or criticize anyone.
Unfortunately …your interpretation of the bible has and does lead to oppression, suicide, depression and the anger from others that you are experiencing…and that is what has derailed my train…from my point of view – as an active christian in ministry…it is your interpretation of the bible that I personally reject…feel free to reject mine…but having I will err on the side of love not the side of judgement…I will err on the side of inclusion…not the side of exclusion…these are your words ‘but the point is if you are going to bring your children up in the way of the Lord, how can you tell your kids that same sex marriages/relationships is OK?’…well I can because IT IS OK…the bible doesn’t call the mutual and reciprocal love shared by a same sex couple a sin and you, my sister in christ are the one who has been led astray…again I implore you…read this: http://www.redletterchristians.org/sexual-orientation-its-not-a-sin/ and then read Torn by Justin Lee…when you have done that…if your heart has not been too been ‘torn’ in two with shame and sadness for the pain you have caused others with your judgement, when you have read and learned that there is another biblically sound point of view regarding homosexuality …and realize the lie you have been fed…I promise you…you will ask our Triune Lord for forgiveness and share these same resources with others.. as I did… will pray for you as much as you will likely initially feel compelled to pray for me. Grace to you.
If you are really in the ministry, I am appalled at your beliefs. Not to mention how many of God’s children you must be leading astray. I strongly suggest you re-read your bible.
Just as you believe it should be taught at home, others believe your point should be taught at home, not in school. The difference between your opinion and others on this thread, as far as I am concerned, is that yours tends to lead to people doing things that are harmful to the community at large. The acknowledgement of gay people is not doing emotional/physical harm to anyone. It instead, recognizes that there are a host of people in this beautiful world that live their lives in different ways. Being openly gay is a lot safer now in the US than it has ever been before. As such, the addition of the gay family in conversations with children seems logical. Does that conversation need to take on a position, no. It can be presented as a fact like every other aspect of the make up of family.
“Some children are raised by a mommy and a daddy; a step-mom/dad; two mommies; two daddies; grandparents; aunts and/or uncles; foster parents; adoptive parents, etc. These families are a lot like your own in that they love one another very much and take care of one another.”
Why is that so wrong? It’s not, unless your argument is that gay parents couldn’t possibly love their children and want to care for them. In fact, I think something along those lines aligns perfectly with this “love the sinner not the sin” concept as it confers respect to all people despite differences. If there is a better way than the above example of the whole love the sinner idea, please share.
I respect people’s religious/non religious beliefs because it is what is right for them. I have no place telling them otherwise. I also believe that I deserve that same respect from others whether or not we match up. By all means, continue to share with your family that being gay is a sin, but don’t fall short by stopping there. Show them what it looks like to disagree with someone and still value them as a whole person. If your only way of doing this is by praying for them to be “delivered” then I fear your message will–if it hasn’t already–be seen has hypocritical. Instead, show love by respectfully disagreeing, but finding ways to support the person(s) anyway (having them over for dinner, including them in community events without shaming them, otherwise known as treating them like all the other people you respect in your life).
We all know that children see more than we think and often do as we do, not as we say. If you accept that as true, including various “others” in your daily life and celebrating them as the they are, despite your differences, is the best way I know how to create a safer, healthier environment for all communities. That is just one social worker’s perspective.
Beautifully said, Brittney.
Do you really have the audacity to believe that your personal take on the bible is closer to someone who is in the ministry?
Your arrogance is without parallel, and if you recall, pride is also a sin.
Just because someone is in the ministry, does not mean their take on things is correct, especially if it conflicts with the WORD. So there is no audacity or arrogance here.
I am going to step in and ask respectfully that we put an end to these comments. I appreciate a heated debate, but let’s all agree to disagree. Thank you for reading, everybody. Enjoy your weekends.
I did reread my bible Marcia and again I encourage you to reread yours…God will love you either way…as he loves me and everyone else…I am heartbroken for you that you appear to view God as one that solely passes judgement…rather than loves…I am equally appalled at your beliefs regarding homosexuality and again encourage you to read Torn…to entertain a different perspective…to step out of your box and recognize the harm your narrow definition of God has done.
Very well said. At one time schools were segregated, we had different restaurants and different water fountains based on race. I know SOMEDAY, this ‘same sex issue’ too shall pass and everyone will be accepted for their heart.
I just stumbled onto your blog tonight and I think I’m in love. (No, not gay…not that there’s anything wrong with that….). Initially, the Common Core post caught my eye. I, like you, am a teacher, mom, and not very happy with Common Core. We had a very similar experience in our home tonight with my 6-year-old twins. One had no problems with the math homework and the other ended up in tears because he just couldn’t get it. My ex-attorney, now-teacher husband could NOT figure out the directions or what was expected. The only reason I eventually figured it out is because I’m a math teacher and have seen this same kind of stuff in my middle-school classroom.
Regarding the gay issue – or non-issue for some – totally agree. I just wish it were a non-issue down here in Louisiana. My sister-in-law and many friends are gay. I love them. They are good, decent people, several of whom are raising beautiful children in a state that tells them they are second-class citizens. Thats my personal and realistic view. Regarding the religious point of view: I’m a Catholic who hasn’t been to mass regularly in over two years because I got tired of having to counter what my children heard in church with how our lives are lived. I’m not saying that just because I want to live a certain way or respect those who do, that makes those choices religiously right. I am just saying that I love God. I love my gay friends and family. I believe God loves them too and if he were to send Jesus to America today, I don’t think He’d be condemning them first.
That said, want to move to Louisiana?! 🙂
Thank you so much! I’ve never been to Louisiana but I’m DYING to get to New Orleans! It’s on my “I must get there one day when my kids are older” list. That and Montana. Is that weird? Anyway, thank you for reading! I write a lot of parenting posts too, so hopefully you’ll like those too. (Mainly posts like, uh, how the heck did someone let me leave the hospital with kids?) Talk to you soon, my southern friend!
I love your parenting posts – been slowly catching up 🙂 And Montana is very cool! Two friends and I went there for our college graduation trip and camped out at Yellowstone Park. I have never been anywhere so isolated in my life. Beautiful but a little strange because of how long you could drive without seeing anther person. You should definitely go 🙂
Yay! Good for you!!! Sing it, sister!
In my personal experience, sexual orientation for many is not a personal choice, but a way that someone is born. It is like having blue eyes or being left-handed. Men don’t choose to find other men attractive, they just do. When I was in high school 20+ years ago, my best friend found other boys attractive and was very upset with himself for it for years. College and supportive friends helped him to feel comfortable with himself and accept himself. I hope that today and in the future, young people who find others of the same sex attractive in a romantic sense won’t have to go through what my friend went through, I would hope they can feel supported and accepted in their communities. I live in the Northeast and I am a public librarian and I do see teens come in who are obviously gay and out and I think it’s great that they can be!
I feel exactly the same way. I have been married to the same man for over 28 years (child bride) and never once was my marriage threatened in any way, shape, or form by gays. I have never cared what my friends did in the privacy of their own bedrooms, or who they did it with. I care how they treat others, how they treat me, and how they contribute to the world. I have 2 sons in their early 20’s an none of their friends thing same sex anything is a big deal. I
You people are really itching for a fight. That’s all it is. I will not comment further on this blog as the purpose was Common Core. I will end by saying “If you are going to be a Christian, be a Vocal Strong Minded Damn Christian and stand up for what you believe. Jesus said “If you won’t confess me before men, I will not confess you before my Father”
Maybe this will help… If you believe in the God of the bible… He created us and created sex… Read what it say’s about sex… Only is for or a man and women union blessed by God. No masturbating, No petting, No out of wedlock, No animals, No “do it with your best friend”, No do it with the same sex. It was, according to God, created for one reason only, the same one that for thousands of years was considered the only acceptable reason. Only recently have we as man changed what is acceptable. The bible says God is the same thousands of years ago as he is today. He don’t change. And that is a good thing because if He did He would probably get fed-up with all of us and just wipe the slate clean and start over again… Love one another, serve one another. If you are a Christian understand Deuteronomy 15:16… We are by our salvation expected to be slaves of the Master. That means we live for His pleasure not ours… We live to serve Him not ourselves… What does the bible really say about sex… It is better to not know it at all and remain pure, but the flesh is week and so if you cannot abstain, then God created an Eve for each Adam… Be pure, Be Holy, if not yesterday then start today.
I’m always dismayed when I read some Christian maintaining that being gay is a sin… and that you must rail about it, insisting your way in the only way.
I belong to the First Congregational United Church of Christ which is “a mainline Protestant Christian denomination primarily in the Reformed tradition, in historical continuation of the Congregational churches founded under the influence of New England Puritanism.” The national settings of the UCC have historically favored liberal views on social issues, such as civil rights, gay rights, women’s rights and abortion rights. Over a million people in the US are members of a UCC church. Our current pastor is gay, as our past associate pastor is. My parents raised their children in that church and were just as accepting, even though they were born in 1915 and 1916.
We believe in God and study the Bible… no different from other Christian churches… except we welcome ALL people and obviously don’t preach, and don’t believe, that homosexuality is a sin. Just goes to show that Marcia’s way isn’t really the only way, thank God!
“He made them male and female”. This statement is at the head of a consistent message throughout the Bible about human relationships. (Clean food does depend on where one lives. Nothing wrong in a prohibition on shell fish or pork in hot countries without refrigeration.)
History is indeed based on who begat whom. When you know where you come from you have an interest in the future. Feral children without family ties, or produced by artificial insemination from sperm banks are most likely to become anti-social and even criminal. No one has proven that children do not need feminine and masculine modelling, AKA father and mother, (Yes, there have been children brought up by relatives but no one claims that there is no feeling of being deprived of a normal home.) There is no genetic basis for the unscientific rumor “born that way”.
In growing up, there are times in which a child questions sexual identity. How can they know what the package of being a man or woman is except by an evolving process in a healthy environment. If a boy likes dolls or the color pink in the past, it would not be a fast track to sexual mutilation. Responsible parents would gently lead their children to acceptance of their biological structure. Using sexual parts other than what they were intended for leads to disease and even death.
Repressed trauma has been an overwhelming reason for thinking one is attracted to the same sex. Affirmation in this case that it is normal and the impossibility of even discussing the issue in reparative therapy some states or in England only reinforces the dysfunction.
Love is not the same as lust or what is called orientation. Monogamy is the exception not the rule in same sex relationships. Vlolence, disease and pedophilic behavior is proportionally much higher among gays. Finally the disgusting vile parades of theirs are a public disgrace.
How this abnormality got sugar coated to the extent that it has invaded every aspect of life, and indeed one cannot go through an entire day without being bombarded by the radical gay agenda that by the way wants to silence ALL disagreement, especially religious, is a coup of media brainwashing over the past 40 years.
“Feral children without family ties, or produced by artificial insemination from sperm banks are most likely to become anti-social and even criminal.”
Your post is full of false ideas that are dangerous to all families that do not follow the one time married man and woman that are able to conceive their own children. Feral children, whatever that means, are likely the result of other factors like poverty, family violence, high frequency contact with law enforcement, drug and alcohol abuse, racial disparities, any combination of these things, etc. The fact that they were conceived via alternative means has nothing to do with it…at least based on my brief overview of research. Couldn’t find one study that supported this claim.
It is often hard to see that the issue is not the hotly contested variance in “lifestyle”–by which I mean having gay parents/conceived through medical means does not bring with it inherent social/emotional distress–but the way the “lifestyle” is greeted by those that don’t agree that causes many of the social/emotional problems of “feral children”. There are a host of reasons for someone not to have biological family ties. It seems we have a bigger problem when society as a whole thinks that only biological families can produce productive, well-adjusted citizens.
There are millions of children worldwide that are in foster care or adoptive families. Some of them end up living a life that is less than savory, true. Some of them end up living lives just like you and I. All of them, I fear, live in a world where they feel shame because they did not come from a Cleaver household. That is not fair to them and is down right ignorant of those that hold this idea as true. It is the lack of support for different family structures that perpetuate the many difficulties faced by these kinds of children. If we gave those kids the same kind of support we see given to “traditional” families, I bet we would see more confidant children with a spike in mental/emotional health.
I don’t have the time to point out the fallacies in the rest of your post, but I assure you they are there. Google Scholar is something you have access to seeing as you have a computer. I think you should find some studies–hopefully peer-reviewed/reputable ones–that will help you understand issues like pedophilia, sexual trauma as it relates to the cause of being gay, intimate partner violence, monogamy in gay relationships, disease (I assume you mean HIV/AIDS–http://www.unaids.org/en/media/unaids/contentassets/documents/epidemiology/2012/gr2012/jc2434_worldaidsday_results_en.pdf), etc.
Potter, D. (2012), Same-Sex Parent Families and Children’s Academic Achievement. Journal of Marriage and Family, 74: 556–571. doi: 10.1111/j.1741-3737.2012.00966.x
Strasser, M. (2011). PARENTS, RELIGIOUS CONVICTIONS, AND PUBLIC SCHOOL CURRICULA. Brigham Young University Education & Law Journal, (2), 547-569.
Welsh, M. G. (2011). Growing Up in a Same-Sex Parented Family: The Adolescent Voice of Experience. Journal Of GLBT Family Studies, 7(1/2), 49-71. doi:10.1080/1550428X.2010.537241
Chan, R. W., Raboy, B., & Patterson, C. J. (1998). Psychosocial adjustment among children conceived via donor insemination by lesbian and.. Child Development, 69(2), 443.
Have a nice day
To Brittany This social experiment is too young to assess the damage caused by knocking out a fundamental pillar of civilized society, the nuclear family and its adjoining reltionships but its logical conclusion was predicted by Aldous Huxley in 1932 when emergent totalitarian systems were doing the same, exploding the family to produce the new person divested from conventional biological ties. It’s incredibly selfish and narcissistic to produce a child from an anonymous sperm bank but twenty years hence, Harper Estelle will most probably search out her DNA match because this is a yet uneradicated trait to seek out one’s biological parents.
What these brave new persons never had, however, they didn’t miss. (mother, father). It could be in the future that this urge for biological ties will be bred out of human beings:
P.25 “And ‘parent’?” questioned the Director of Human Conditioning.
There was an uneasy silence… “Human beings used to be…” he hesitated, “Well they used to be viviparous.”
“…And when the babies were decanted…”
“Born…in brief, the parents were the father and mother. These are unpleasant facts, I know it.”
P.45 “Mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters. But there were also husbands, wives, lovers. There were also monogamy and romance.
“Though you probably don’t know what those are” said Mustapha (sic) Mond (one of the world’s 10 controllers).
They shook their heads.
…”But every one belongs to every one else.”
The students nodded, emphatically agreeing with a statement which upwards of 62,000 repetitions in the dark had made them accept, not merely as true, but as axiomatic, self-evident, utterly indisputable.”
As for perfectly normal well-adjusted adults,why don’t you read Oscar Lopez’ regretful account of having two “mothers”?
“My home life was not traditional nor conventional. I suffered because of it, in ways that are difficult for sociologists to index…”
http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2012/08/6065/
More facts and figures: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/gold-standard-studys-striking-findings-children-of-heterosexual-parents-hap
Proportionately the spread of HIV among MSM, especially young people, is way out of proportion to its actual numbers versus the larger population and should be taken very seriously: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pdf/statistics_surveillance_Adolescents.pdf
All of the above have been brought to you by the same spin doctors who said Winston tastes good like a cigarette should. Unhealthy behavior and habits that defy commonsense have to be divested of their odors and ugly realities in order to be accepted.
Hmmm…. I read the first article and thought, this kid is gay. His life was indeed unconventional, not because he had two moms (which he really didn’t) but because the people who played a part in raising him did a crappy job. There are terrific gay and straight parents and there are lousy ones. I don’t see facts worthy of referencing in the story. Nice try though.
The only one of those links you gave that is reputable was the CDC, a source I often reference. You want to focus on the spread of the disease within the gay community, those numbers are there for all to see. However, people, regardless of sexual orientation, spread this and many other diseases. Something you surely read on the CDC. As to the rest of your “evidence”, I think Amy hit it right on the head. The last link is one that uses an unpublished (not peer-reviewed) study.
My opinion on this topic continues to be informed by sound studies, I have not been brainwashed by the liberal media, talking points from opportunistic politicians, and so on. I use my power of discernment, tempered with an academic understanding of how research studies are supposed to work, before I assume what I am reading is valid and/or generalizable to the greater population. Lifesitenews, for instance, is not a study I would take to the bank.
Plenty of people use the “it’s too early to tell” argument, they aren’t wrong but they certainly aren’t correct either. Sure it is too early to know what will happen as a result of this shift 100 years from now. However, many studies that have been done, both qualitative and quantitative, show that the”fallout” from such a shift is far from catastrophic. A reasonable response is to wait and see. Offering conclusions that have not been put through the rigor of the scientific method is bad science because, as you have pointed out, not enough time has passed. So then, why bother arguing over how this is going to end up? Why clutch so dearly to something none of us can possibly know because there just isn’t enough evidence?
What do you mean by nuclear family? That term gets thrown around a lot but means something different to everyone. Marriage/family, historically, has seen women and children as property for use by men for social/economic gains. Is that the nuclear family you are talking about? That does not sound like something that produces healthy children. This example, is extreme, but nonetheless true. I assume you do not agree that women and children are property. What about the societies like the Mouso of China where they practice “walking marriages” instead of the nuclear unit? Are they of less value? Do they produce mentally/emotionally challenged children due to the absence(for lack of a better word) of the father? Is their way of life doomed to fail because it lacks the fundamental pillar of society?
Someone I was discussing this thread with compared your response to the idea of parents who smoke. Smoking has been proven to be harmful to the smoker and those around the smoker several times over. It is something the adult is legally allowed to do but has serious proven (I stress proven in this parallel) health risks. Do you support the idea that people who smoke should not be allowed to have children because it causes serious health issues? There are countless examples like this one. Their point is, why stop at the gay parenting thing? If one is so concerned for the welfare of children and society at large they should also be taking stands on issues such as this one.
I gave you peer reviewed articles because I respect the concept of public discourse greatly. I hope your next response will also show such respect. I am willing to consider your point of view, even though I am in disagreement with you. In order for me to do that, I would need to see some articles that show they are based on the method widely accepted as required for the conclusions to be considered valuable. True science research does not cling to any preconceived outcomes, no matter the research topic. Hear me when I say, if it meets the standards of research done correctly and can be generalized out, we have a place to start an informed conversation. Until then, I have little evidence to critically think about based on what you have presented here thus far.
It is dinner time for us. So this will have to continue at a later time. Good Night.
@Brittney Your radical feminist agenda slip is showing here: “Marriage/family, historically, has seen women and children as property for use by men for social/economic gains.”
Yeah, get rid of the white male hegemony!
One doesn’t need heavily funded and politically slanted studies to divine that children are vitally interested in where they came from. Adopted children, even though coming from stable loving environments, overwhelmingly seek out their biological roots.
Human society is not perfect and growing up in relatives’ homes or institutions rather than the streets are compromises but not the ideal. It’s just that biological parents are less likely to abuse children than mommie’s boyfriends or wicked stepmothers.
We both mentioned smoking. If public health is so important, then a ban on sodomy should be reinstituted. This is what two daddies do as well as the other unsavory variation. This is how AIDS is spread among heteros. Serial partners and anonymous sex among gays makes it an epidemic in that so-called community.
(How the radical gay agenda spread the canard “AIDS Victimz” and got the public to sympathize with them is amazing. If they just kept their equipment in their pants…)
The two mommies who “had a baby” at the outset of this article would like to live in a male free world. They would even deprive a child of a father to further the radical feminist agenda. Her being fatherless is not an accident of war or chance as with many or most orphaned children, but another little mascot for the feminist revolution.
I agree cabbage juice on it all. The statement about deadbeat Dads show the Male hegemony clearly. How about deadbeat Moms.. I know a bunch
And oh BTW, if we are being so hoity-toity scientific, “science research does not cling to any preconceived outcomes, no matter the research topic”, WHERE is evidence of “being born that way”, the gay gene? NOWHERE!!!
Other social utopias like Nazism and Soviet Communism were also predicated on phony science such as the superiority of the Arian race and Lysenko’s politically informed heritability of acquired characteristics.
The radical feminist and gay agenda is to transform society in their utopian image. The totalitarian tactics of repressing dissent are already in operation. This is not a benign movement. It is full of hate for traditional values and are out to destroy them which they are succeeding at an incredible rate. WHY? Because people, even teachers, are uninformed as to the moral underpinnings of our culture. It’s the Fall of the Roman Empire redux. But hey, who studies authentic history these days?
I see you are not interested in a real conversation which is fine. There was no feminist slip, just an example many people have of the institution of marriage as a whole…and a reason many young people have cited for not wanting to participate in it (my personal experience from classroom discussions). As to science, I stand by what I said. We are not having a debate on whether or not people are born one way or the other. This conversation is about the gay family. I have stuck to that. You have ventured off onto many “divine” tangents while I have merely presented you with research. My objective is not to change your mind, as it is clearly set in stone.
Instead, my point is to speak so that someone else reading this, someone that may feel cornered by people like you, know that there are others in the world that support them just as they are with not exceptions. I suspect that is the reason why many of the people speak up in forums like this, no matter their opinion. I happen to enjoy the way I approach the world and the vast differences I come across, I learn from others and celebrate them. I find it is much less exhausting to live life this way. If that makes me a radical, gay-loving, feminist, liberal…that’s more than fine by me. Though you and I don’t agree, I feel no animosity towards you or view. Instead, I take with me a lesson in how to respectfully interact with someone on the opposite end of the spectrum no matter how they interact with me.
I hope you–like everyone else in this world–find, enjoy, and spread love/peace/understanding.
It’s either sad or comical that you are referencing a “gay gene”. People are, however, made up of different levels of testosterone and estrogen hormones. Last I checked, you can’t adjust those… even with prayer. God doesn’t make mistakes. Love on.
It will change once all the haters are dead. Well as long as they don’t convert their children into haters before they die.
Oh, so that is what you wish for those who don’t agree with you? Either forcibly shut them up, ruin their businesses if they don’t comply or death?
This had been known all along where the real hate is, hatred for traditional values and the family. When the finger of hate is pointed at someone, three are pointing back.
STANDING OVATION!
Amen!!!!!
I’m a straight,liberal,61 year old female.
Whenever I hear people make derogatory remarks about anyone’s sexuality, I ask them the same question.
“When did you decide to be straight?”
The answer is always the same.
“I was born this way. ” “I always knew”
“It’s just who I am .” ” it’s normal for me.”.
Then I smile, and say
“Don’t you think everyone feels that way? And deserves to be loved?”
If they counter (at all) with the “that’s not normal”.. I’m a nurse- I ask them to Define “Normal”
Leaves them thinking.
I have a gay child. I love her and wouldn’t change a thing about her or my other 2 children. But I do take offense about you calling me a “shitty” parent because I smoke. You know nothing about me. You are judging a bad habit that I have. And yes, most of us smokers will agree that it is bad and nasty. But it doesn’t make us shitty people. We have a shitty habit. Sounds to me like you are thumping something yourself like you accuse the church going people of doing. Get off your high horse!!
I was talking about smoking marijuana. But…thanks for reading.
Thank you for these wonderful words. I am a lesbian…and born this way. I would never have chosen to be gay – that’s the biggest joke I continue to hear. I embrace who I am and I love myself every day. Your blog made me smile…who cares! Yes, Thank you.
I agree totally that you don’t have to be straight to be a good parent and that there MANY horrible parents out there. But I think the writer of this article may have missed a scripture or 2 based on one of her statements.
*******Her statement: “But I’m pretty sure if Jesus showed up and decided to get his disciples together to rewrite the Bible, he’d throw a little tidbit about deadbeat parents in there: Thou shall not choose meth, vodka, prescription meds, and shitty beer over their child.”
Here’s a couple of scripture that address these things in my opinion.
Deadbeat Dads or Moms too:
Anyone who does not provide for his own people, especially for his family, has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 Timothy 5:8
Drugs,Vodka, Abuse, Etc:
“Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom … You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body” (1 Corinthians 6:19-20).
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21)
Kids these days are “used to” and have no choice to “except” abuse, neglect, parents fighting and tons and tons of other crazy stuff they are subjected to these days, but that doesn’t make it OK. I’m not trying to be judgmental in any way.. God gave all of us free will. And that includes their choice of being gay. I’m just saying Jesus did throw in those “tidbits” about these issues that she somehow missed reading in the Bible
God doesn’t make mistakes. Think about it. Everyone has the right to their opinion, but be careful not to use the Bible to lift up your chosen lifestyle to tear down someone else’s … whom God created. He doesn’t make mistakes. Love on.
Crusades. Spanish inquisition. Salem witch trials. All in God’s name. When people accused you of spouting hatred you became defensive it didn’t feel good to be attacked. The reaction of calling a person who is gay that they are living in sin and is unacceptable and you are surprised there is a pushback response? I’m curious what you pray for? Is it for gays to be fixed or for God’s response for your own conflict on the subject? The Pharisees thought they were know it alls too. A little humility goes a long way.
This is great! As a gay mother, I want to thank you for the great article. I really love the way you speak to the issue and bring light to things that are, I’m sure, controversial to some. But, it’s my life and I really appreciate people like you! I also thank you for easing some of my concern for my daughter’s school life – I mean she’s only 2 and not likely to have school for a few years, but hopefully the situation will continue to get better in years to come! Thanks again!
One if the best blogs ever! Thank you
No, thank you!